Re: The Mercy Rule

Hey Gary, I think this "mercy" rule has been in place for a couple years. But I believe that both coaches have to agree to enforce it. So it is up to the coaches on whether or not there will be a running clock. But it is rarely enforced because, as you said, it is a great opportunity for bench players to get some plaing time.

Re: The Mercy Rule

Josh: Not anymore. It is in place, and as I understand it, it will be enforced each and every game no matter what the coaches want.

Re: The Mercy Rule

If you are going to wirte on a subject, take the time to research the topic. You do not even know when (year) it was put into place or how it operates(over and under 30). I find it hard to believe the rest of your agruement when the hypothesis is faulty. Good journalism takes homework, do some.

Re: The Mercy Rule

he throck, this is the first year where it is mandatory. In previous years it was optional. No one was requesting it so the IHSAA decided to make them use it.

Re: The Mercy Rule

Throckmorton: I did some further research for you. First of all, who cares when it happened? It's here now. That wasn't that important to the point I was making. My coaches said either last year or the one before, they are not sure. When the lead gets to 30 in the 4th quarter, it's on and even if it gets under 30 the clock continues to run. Sorry for the confusion. Happy now? You know, I do this for fun when I can find the time (I have a full time job), and to be informative. I don't get paid. When people like you are kinda rude, it amazes me and always will.

Re: The Mercy Rule

Gary, we appreciate your efforts and all the time you put in to help kids. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to the State Tournament!

Re: The Mercy Rule

One further clarification, once the lead hits 30 points after the third quarter, the clock will NOT stop, regardless if the lead goes down below 30.

Re: The Mercy Rule

They just started this in California too. It seems weird. I think your points about the subs are very good ones. Also, coaches can use this opportunity to work on things with subs and/or starters. It's too bad some coaches poor it on and cause a rule like this to be made. Tom Campbell, who you might remember Gary, had a great girls' team from a bigger school (PV) and he did that to my smaller school (Orland) team in my first full year of coaching. After the game I confronted him and told him it was B.S. (full version). That is the only time in my coaching career I did not shake hands with the other coach. BTW, he did go on to win a state championship the next year!! But now he's coaching a mediocre small school and his best player quit!! What goes around comes around!!

Re: The Mercy Rule

Thank you for writing this! As a coach this might be the most frustrating rule I've ever seen. The major issue I have is that the clock continues to run during free throws. We have had times where the ref had to tie BOTH his shoes before he could throw the ball to the shooter -- the shooter spent over two minutes at the line and by the time the game started up again the game was over. I understand the reasoning is to protect certain integrities at the lower divisions where problems have occurred, but at the higher levels this is absolutelty unnecessary. Get rid of it!! Or have each division vote -- I thought we lived in a democratic state?

Re: The Mercy Rule

The mercy rule in any sport is ridiculous. As a former coach I hated it when I coached and hate it now. People always underestimate the kids ability to bounce back after a 50 point blow out. It's actually easier to bounce back from that than a heartbreaking 1 point loss at the buzzer. It limits the subs getting valuable minutes plus it hurts kids stats. Yes, stats are actually important.

Re: The Mercy Rule

It looks like there are pro's and con's on this one Jones. I don't think the clock should run during a foul shot. I understand that the subs could get more playing time which they deserve. Last night the mercy rule took affect during the Jerome/Canyon Ridge game. The 4th quarter just flew by(not to say that I wasn't ready to go home). Remember it was CR with Twin Falls that started all the rucous about one team rubbing it in to another. Coach V, what are you going to have the starters learn in the 4th when they are 30+ points ahead? The only thing that I can think of is how to stall and that's not hard to do against an inferior team.

Re: The Mercy Rule

I agree about getting rid of the rule and I beleive most coaches would like to also. We have had several games this year that put the rule into effect. Our coach would actually call time out at the time of free throws to stop the clock and give the bench more playing time. Then he gets threats from the opposing fans after the game for "rubbing it in". They obviously don't know the game well enough to understand what he was trying to do for his kids to give them more time on the floor. All of these kids play hard in practice and since 11 of our 20 games this year reached this point, they were shorted their time on the court.

Re: The Mercy Rule

The mercy rule was first implemented in the 06-07 season, but it was optional and up to the coaches to use it. The rule was made mandatory in the 07-08 season.

Every coach I know does not like it. It takes away from the game, and takes away an opportunity for some kids to get playing time.

The game is not always about the score board.

Re: The Mercy Rule

As a basketball official, I'll throw in my thoughts on this one. I'm not going to lie, typically in a 30 point game the game isn't very good and so sometimes it is nice to have it end quickly. But the game is about the student athletes and I agree with you Gary. I think it should be done away with and in turn this would allow the kids to play the game. It's too bad there are those coaches who want to run up the score. But on the other hand, if a coach has his subs in and they are still pummeling a team, then that's just the way it goes. Some teams are better than other teams and that's the way it is. We aren't in little league anymore.

Re: The Mercy Rule

The mercy rule should be kicked to the curb. If you're getting beat by 30 or more you either shouldn't be playing the opponent or your team deserves to get beat down for the full amount of time. It's like quitting as far as I'm concerned.

Re: The Mercy Rule

The mercy rule is like not keeping score in the little leagues. Exactly what is gained from either party in this situation? The only advantage to the rule is the fact that the local media and the folks cleaning up after-wards get an early night. Long story short. . . . rule should be scrubbed!

Re: The Mercy Rule

As a former coach, I too would like to see the mercy rule eliminated. I agree with subs not getting playing time; they too are valuable members of the team. However, I do know several coaches who could use their substitutes more during the game when they know they are playing a much weaker team. They use the starters most the game; then with a 30 point lead, they givie the subs their chance. This is poor coaching. While you have your 20 point lead, sub three non-starters in with two starters and keep that rotation for some time. Honestly, what difference is a 20 point win from a 30. When I was coaching, I had several opportunities to win by 30, but I instead made use of my subs throughout the game and won by 15 or 20. If coaches truly care about all of their players, they would do this more. Ego must take a back seat to all the players.

Re: The Mercy Rule

stinger - I'm not sure why you thought I would have the starters in at this point in the game, I'm actually a little confused by your question. It's a chance for the bench players to get in the game. Occassionally a starter has to be put in due to injury or a kid getting tired, not what you want to do but that is how it works. Defensively when you are up you should be sitting in a zone or soft man and not pressing.

Re: The Mercy Rule

Yeah this mercy rule in basketball has been in effect for a few years. My view though is that if a team is up by 40 and they are still pressing, its ok. Its the team thats down by 40's job to be able to break that press. The winning team is just running their gameplan.

Re: The Mercy Rule

The MERCY RULE is great... it keeps idiot coaches like the Blackfoot organization from running up the score even more. My daughter plays on the JV of one of Blackfoots opponents. Our team has had a very trying season. Yes, all players get playing time, but if teh starters can't win, then the backups have no chance. Every team we played would pull their press off after realizing that there was no need and that they were going to win by a lot just by running their offense. Bonneville (a great program!!) pulled their press off half way thru the 1st quarter. However, not only did Blackfoot press deep into the 4th quarter, they also left their starters in the entire time. There was not one sub on that bench that wanted to be a part of a trouncing on my daugher's team. Gary... are you one of the Blackfoot coaches?

Re: The Mercy Rule

Brad: I am NOT one of those coaches, nor would I want to be. If you have ever read my blogs, you would know that I campaign against coaches like you're talking about. I have always said that pressing with a huge lead is horrible. I did coach for years and was never guilty of that. I agree that running up the score against teenagers is very poor, but I still feel that an entire game should be played. Hopefully, the leading team would sub and allow the losing team to play their subs against players of somewhat equal ability. They should also play a soft zone and not run a tight man to man. We had a coach that did the same to us (I am at New Plymouth High) and people said that we should get even if we ever get the chance. I would never do that, though, cuz I would be doing the very thing the other coach did. The one thing he will not do is turn me into him, so if I ever got the chance, I would show him how to do it by subbing and taking it easy on an inferior opponent.

Re: The Mercy Rule

There are a lot of small schools in Idaho, and especially so in the Northern part of the state. Many schools can barely put a team together, and these often are the teams that benefit from this rule. When you get blown out each night, sometimes it is nice to end a game a little early. 30 points is big margin, and when there are only six players on one squad and 8 on the other, everyone is needed; there is no need to provide extra time for subs, they get all they need. I think the Mercy Rule is appropriate, it helps keep the tension to a minimum--it really cuts down on the "cheap shots" that can escalate in a blowout situation. In every game I have been a part of that had the Mercy Rule in effect, it was welcome by all--both teams, both coaches, both officials. The teams that are often affected by this rule, welcome the start of the 4th quarter, and it is a good way to end a bad situation that would only become worse by lengthening it.

Re: The Mercy Rule

It is rediculous that such a rule had to be put in place because coaches (grown men and women) do not have the scrupples to back off when creaming another team. How sad is that! Our kids learn nothing from these kind of coaches except poor ................. everything.
The only thing worse than these kind of coaches are parents who will not let the coaches coach and let the kids play. Oh well I will get off this soap box.
By the way keep up the good work.

Re: The Mercy Rule

Hey! I paid 5 bucks to get into a game....I want to see all of it!

Re: The Mercy Rule

I appreciate these comments on a very difficult subject, but having coached for 17 years, and been on both sides, I am not in favor of the mercy rule. Part of it is a playing time issue, but mostly I am not in favor of the rule because I do feel it is akin to quitting, for BOTH teams, and I believe that is the wrong message to send kids. Playing on requires one key ingredient and it needs to come from BOTH coaches - integrity. Interestingly, most of the discussion has centered around the lack of integrity of the winning coach for pouring it on. Well, I've seen it where the opposing team absolutely quit and kids on the team with big lead were literally standing around in that soft zone. That's unaccpetable. The coach on the short end bears the responsibilty to keep his kids playing. Kids on the losing side need to be taught to fight through adversity, afterall, they will have to cope with a lot tougher things in life than being beaten by 40 points in a basketball game. Kids on the winning side can be taught to remain focused and do things correctly at all times, another important life skill. In the end, as I said above, good coaches will protect the integrity of the game.

Re: The Mercy Rule

We dont need Mercy Rules, we need egotistic coaches to be trained. I remember a time in 8th grade ball I was coaching,I instructed the kids only one kid could shoot (he had a physical disability) and if they did shoot they would be replaced. Our kids had a good training on sportsmanship, all the while our disabled gentleman ended up scoring. We played tough inside the lane zone defense , it was fun for all the kids, BOTH teams.

Re: The Mercy Rule

I agree that the mercy rule should go. As a coach, if my team is getting beat by a large margin, it means my team has some improving to do. I do not want the team to stop what they are doing. I want to continue trying to correct what my team is doing wrong and improve on our skills. If I am the better team, I want my subs to get the opportunity to practice their skills just like the starters. Obviously when the mismatch is so one-sided it has completely embarrassed the other team, what coach would not make the necessary adjustments in the name of good sportsmanship? Maybe the rule has some merit at district and state championship tournaments, but if good sportsmanship is practiced there is no need for the rule.

Re: The Mercy Rule

The rule has been in effect for I believe 3 years now. The coaches do not have a say in applying the rule. The officials must direct the scorekeeper to run the clock once the 30 point lead has been established in the 4th quarter. I agree that this may limit playing time for some players that ride the bench most the game but, as a rule I have not seen that to be the case. The mercy rule draws attention from the fans, coaches and players to the fact that one team has totally ruled another team but, the alternative can be worse. The rule is not applied at district tournaments or at the state tournament??? I have mixed feelings but feel the rule is fair and probably prevents the escalating problems that tend to appear in a blow out game.

Re: The Mercy Rule

This rule has been in effect for atleast four years

Re: The Mercy Rule

I agree with Throckmorton on about knowing what your talking about if your gonna Blog Gary, same goes if your going to call a webcast and ask triva or other questions, know your facts before you ask them makes you look like the **** in this situations. Not saying I know it all but your the one to start the Blogs Gary, check facts and figures next time or dont bring the subject up!!!

Re: The Mercy Rule

I'll tell ya what, r2martin. Yeah, I make mistakes. Made one with that trivia question...first mistake in that area I have ever done. Oops, I must be human...I make mistakes. I'll tell ya what. You take an English class and learn to use "you're" correctly, avoid run-on sentences, and the correct use of this or these, and I promise to check my facts from now on. Poor English makes you look ******.

Re: The Mercy Rule

I dont have to worry about that but sure hope your school gives you permission to do all this blogging on school time, sure looks like they must have a lot more money than others do to let you blog during the school day instead of teaching. You might have made a mistake on the trivia Gary but thats two on here now with the Mercy rule and the trivia question. Hope your business classes go better with your questions than you do on your blogs.

Re: The Mercy Rule

hey get over it similar rule exist in other sports...its not mercy...its just part of the game...do you want a boxer ACTUALLY knocked out?...or is a TKO good enough?

Mercy rules are ridiculous.

It robs kids of precious time out on the court/field. It robs 2nd/3rd string players of precious play time.
I have been on both sides of 30 points margins both as a kid as and as an adult in Boise city league games. As a player I don't care what the score is, I am playing my hardest and enjoying my time to play. I see it as robbing me of precious time when they run the clock or stop a game because of the score.

Re: The Mercy Rule

The mercy rule gives the winning team a chance to play there younger or less talented players and limits the threat of a comback by the loosing teams starters. I would like to see a 35 or 40 second shot clock added to eliminate stalling a game, talk about wasting money to see a game.

Re: The Mercy Rule

i agree with the mercy rule as a coach. coaches need to learn how to get players in the game before the 3rd or 4th. i know if they did games would be alot closer goin into the second half. why would u want the game to get way out of hand on the score board? it does no good for either team. ya, a shot clock would help things out alot. most coaches though are thinking of winning the game instead of getting all of his players stronger.

Re: The Mercy Rule

As a coach of a first year varsity team (new program) that went winless this year (closest game was 15 points), I favor the mercy rule as it is. First, the spread does not occur instantaneously. Thus coaches can get subs in the first 3 quarters if the game is such that the mercy rule will go into effect. Second, I can attest to the fact that the kids on the bench are also not too excited to be on the court when the team is losing by 30. Winning, or at least competing, is just as important to the guys on the end of the bench as it is to the first 5. A game that is 30 points plus in the 4th is no longer a competative game, thus the bench players don't really have the desire to be on he court either. As a coach it is very difficult to maintain good morale and discipline under those circumstances. I therefore support the mercy rule. I would guess the mercy rule came into effect in almost half of our games this year. I had very good kids that were passionate about the game and wanted to win (just short on experience), so they did not want to be on the court at the point which they were down 30. That said, my boys will make a big impact next year, and the mercy rule will not come into play for my team, unless it is for the benefit of the other team. :-)

Re: The Mercy Rule

I think I am correct....r2martin can't be a baseball fan in R. Martin....Sounds like a soft Ricky Martin? Because your argument and statements were not only just off the wall and g@#, but I think we all are more confused and dumb after reading your argument...Remeber...Unemployment checks run out buddy, just like your one hit wonder!! Looks like the state is paying you to sit at home and think of something good to type because of a grudge or jealous Gary has a "voice"..Guess you should have stayed in school Ricky instead of taking the singing career.....Peace Flamer!

Re: The Mercy Rule

I see both sides of this argument and could agree with both of them. I think the best thing to do would be to get rid of the mercy rule and educate coaches. If coaches really wanted to keep their programs strong they would find ways to substitute their weaker players in so that they can get the experience they need. Practice is great but we all know that the best practice is actually game time. If the weaker team some how manages a come back with their starters against the subs, its a no brainer to put the starters back in.